GERM VS. TERRAIN: WHAT REALLY MAKES US SICK?
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Del, Alec Zeck, Dr. Ben Tapper, and Katie Collins, PA-C, tackle one of the most polarizing debates in modern health: germs or terrain—what truly drives disease? This candid, high-stakes conversation reveals how this divide shapes vaccine policy, chronic illness, and personal responsibility—and why questioning the dominant paradigm remains deeply controversial.
AIRDATE: February 19, 2026
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Everyone in my daughtetrs class had chicken pox but SHE did not get it. Why? She was on a different diet than most of the kids in the class. When I heard that everyone got chicken pox early, I put her on a NO STARCH/NO SUGAR DIET. mOST PEOPLE EAT LOTS OF CARBS AND SUGAR. WE ATE HIGH CHLOROPHYLL RICH DIET AND FRUITS AND VEGGIES UN COOKED. YOUR DIET WHICH MOST PEOPLE ARE ON S SIMILAR DIET WILL GET THE ILLNESS. THAT IS NOT BEING LOOKED AT. THE DIET MUST BE TWEAKED AND SCRUTINIZED THIS IS THE MAJOR CAUSE OF DISEASE. MOST PEOPLE ARE EATING THE SAME THING AND TOO MUCH OF IT..IN PARTICULAR HIGH CARB COOKED DIETS.
Thank you for having this conversation on your show. The science of virology is the true disaster and is very significant in the vaccine discussion. Hoping and praying that more people will become aware of this vital piece of the puzzle and take the time to look more closely at the fraudulent scientific studies.
First of all, thank you Del for bringing this “issue” finally to an even wider audience. I must say Alec…YOU ”brought it”!! 👍👍 Next is for Tom Cowan @talkinturkeywithtom_ and Andy Kaufman @andrewkaufmanmd to accept Del’s invitation!! What a “show” that would be! A question was asked by Del and Katie…Then why has a vax-ine “worked” for some? Who knows unless you believe in the power of the mind (wherever IT is located) …it’s a PLACEBO silly!! And to address Del’s concern that the “no vi-rus camp’s argument” should not be the main issue…My retort being au contraire. It is the ground floor and ONLY argument to bring this house of cards down. Due to the fact, it demonstrates big time CRIMINAL FRAUD has been perpetrated upon a mindless society from almost the dawn of man with the statute of limitations tolled for concealment. But now upon waking such a sleeping giant, they’ll be “gunning for bear”. And so it goes in Neverland 🤔
Listening to this idea, it seems to go back to the beginning of the debate over germ theory. I remember watching the movie, “The Story of Louis Pasteur” from 1936, and it dramatized this exact same debate, with I believe Dr. Charbonnet representing what’s being called here the terrain theory; that the microbes are incidental to the disturbance. They just show up around it, but are not causing it. The position the movie takes is that this theory is wrong, and that Pasteur was right that there are certain microbes that cause severe disease, and goes on to herald the invention of vaccines. I don’t take my health cues from movies. I’m just describing what’s in the story.
I was a bit puzzled why Zeck, if he’s so convinced that bacterial cultures do not cause disease, said that in case of delivering a child, or doing surgery that he’s fully in favor of sanitation (to prevent bacterial infection). That indicates to me he’s hedging that bacteria causes disease in some cases. If as he said, there’s no scientific evidence for this causal relationship, why hedge?
I get what Tapper said about how we absolutely need the presence of bacteria in and on our bodies to live. That’s a biological fact. However, I don’t accept what he said about how, “If germ theory was true, we’d all be dead.” That’s really oversimplifying it. Even the most hardened traditional medical practitioners would say without breaking a sweat that there are good bacteria, that support our well-being, but also that there are bad bacteria, that cause disease. Germ theory is not as simple as saying “all bacteria are bad.” I know there are non-medical professionals out in society who believe “all germs are bad,” but traditional medicine doesn’t. Even in traditional medicine there’s support for the idea of fecal transplants, where the feces of certain patients, with desirable health attributes, are transferred into the colons of patients who are suffering some disorder, even obesity, and patients have seen very positive results from that, so I hear. The idea being that gut flora plays a significant role in a person’s health.
What puzzles me about terrain theory is I don’t think anyone who believes in that would drink from untreated sewer water (aside from the aversion to the smell and taste) without the strong prediction that they would get sick from it. Why is that? If microbes are incidental, there should be no problem. Why do we even sanitize water? Isn’t that just a waste of resources?
I think the more intriguing debate is over the existence of viruses, since I keep hearing about how no viruses have actually been isolated, and we’ve seen how there’s been a lot of very dangerous fakery around the treatment of viral infections.
They say that viruses are not real, as a causative agent of many diseases. Invisible to the naked eye, bacteria and fungi are considered germs. They are lumped in with viruses, under Germ Theory, but they are undoubtedly real, and pose dangers. I agree with them, that very healthy tissue and people will usually not be taken over by these germs, but all you have to do is get overly tired or run down, and undue proliferation in your system can occur. Everyone is vulnerable in those moments. It is unfortunate that they overstate the case against germ theory, including clearly detectable organisms that are dangerous.
My experience puts me firmly on the side of Terrain Theory having underrated validity. But, when they say all germs, including bacteria and fungi, are benign, unless you did something wrong, is an unfortunate overstatement.
Dr. Ben’s fearlessness around patients is interesting, and probably based on experience, rather than foolhardiness.. If you don’t know what the Rosenau experiments are, please look it up. It is absolutely essential to Terrain Theory purist ideology.
I once again challenge them to do a public repeat of those experiments. If they are so sure, then they can include their friends and loved ones for greater impact. If they are right, they would be doing the whole world a huge and monumental favor.
Don’t forget Gonorrhea and Syphilis when you run these experiments. Could be fun! Perhaps you can convince me of your position, which I think is overstated.
Again, I am certain that the best way to avoid disease is to maintain a healthy system, which includes conscious diet and avoidance of drugs and vaccines. But I am not sold on the extreme position that germs of every type are merely beneficial. Even a pet dog can bite, if you approach it awkwardly, and some of these are Rottweilers and Pit Bulls.
And a huge related topic that needs to be considered is aging and death. Natural and necessary, right?
Ditto on the existence and effect of viruses. A real understanding of ‘viruses’ would include study of exosomes. They are the same size as viruses, but are part of our natural bodies.
However I am not holding my breath, waiting for an honest assessment to be published.
After seeing the title of this segment, I got excited and hoped I’d see Dawn Lester and David Parker on the show since their book is titled “What really makes you ill”.
But that’s ok. I’ve never heard of Alec or Ben before seeing this segment and I do just want to say a big thank you to Del and The Highwire for airing this discussion. I can see there are still plenty of audience members confused who shouldn’t be. I can help shed some light for whoever needs more answers but in the end I thought Del did a good job at bringing everyone into a place where we can be comfortable on the same side, even if some of us believe more in the absolute truth more than others.